Sourcing Playhouse EP3

oh okay so let's do this one um I uh kiki is there something you would like to say to the audience kiki well I have nothing quite to say but I want to thank everyone for attending our ama we have them bi-weekly so please stay tuned for future events also we have a happy hour bingo on the 4th so definitely sign up for that we're going to be giving away three prizes so it's gonna be three rounds of bingo and the third one's the best so I would definitely stay tuned to the end but you guys take it away why is it whenever we say her name I think of kiki d

i i don't know because you're 107 years old excuse me you need to really get it right in military years i'm a hundred and sixty eight sixty nine years get it right yeah the other thing for the audit since this is a record is recorded uh you know everyone has uh a a great number of events and and uh uh uh planned for the future uh clearly uh you know may of 2022 we're gonna have our first uh live in person oh my goodness uh conference their details are are coming the speakers are gonna be incredible uh come uh upcoming uh august 23rd we're gonna have essentially a memorial give back for marielle who passed away uh recently a long-time member of the uh sourcing community uh we have more and more articles that are coming up on the website so if you have not subscribed to everyone evry the number one dot u s please do so and uh friend us all and and bring a friend along and there's an idiot there's also videos going up there for about half of different things i mean between you you and greg and yeah greg hawks and and then there's and then there's webinars that we're going to be doing beyond that i know i have another one i have one next month i just don't know when yet because i'm still deliberating what it's about um yeah we have a lot going on so it's going to be an exceptionally exciting uh q4 which uh which brings back uh uh brings us to uh you know i called dean earlier today and uh i said you know q4 when when companies are you know are you know you know are encouraging people to come back into the office on a more full-time basis perhaps something hybridized perhaps two days a week three days a week uh that is going to set forth i think a a a relative an avalanche or a tsunami of of people who are going to be probably more malleable to opportunities and and i asked and i wonder how that's going to impact sourcing the way we know it is is it make it harder is going to make it easier or people are going to be you know asking you know questions that they never asked before and i said it might be a pretty good topic to to to debate and yeah and let's see what we can do with that so that's what we're going to talk about you know sourcing in the back to work era anything questions you have about that uh you know pop them into the chat or and that matter or or or anything for that matter what do you think do you mean is it do you think you know come you know post labor day things are going to be changed oh yeah i just think i think you're going to find a lot of people who have gotten used to working from home and not being in the office who work for companies who are probably have have proven that not only has productivity not gone down because it actually has gone up um but they're just hard-headed and still want their people to come in i think you're going to find a lot of people open to the idea of going to other jobs the only thing is going to be those jobs are going to have to allow them to work remotely i think the days for most positions not all there's some there's just nothing you can do about of having to be in an office are over i mean i can't think of many jobs that you have to be in the office for um yeah and so as a result i think there's gonna be a lot of people if they get forced i already know a friend of mine i'm not gonna mention companies work for company and they're trying to force them back and he told me that 90 of the workforce is looking for other jobs because they just don't want to go back they don't want to deal with it especially since the whole premise behind it with provide and covet is not over because now we have the delta variant to deal with so you know i personally don't think that um i think there's gonna be a lot of people available but the problem's gonna be is can you get them if you are not offering them remote you ain't getting them because why would they leave what they got for you to go to somewhere else where they still have to go in the office twitter twitter as an example is closing a lot of its offices letting people stay remote you know twitter twitter is a is is a is a lesson to its fun and i suspect we we we could probably corral uh fink or wolford into uh talking about them or not maybe we have to put them behind you know you know paper bags so no one sees that yeah and not call them by their real name they're not called by the real name but you know pam crouch uh uh mentioned the chat let's talk about defense and the challenge they will face interesting pam is talking to her

this morning he's a moog up in uh in the buffalo area and you know moog defense company obviously he knows them and uh you know he had uh i i saw that he they were looking for a a business continuity a disaster recovery uh owner and he said uh privately he says we have we've had to go towards regional remote because specifically i said raytheon went to regional remote and so that is that that's going to you know you're going to see these almost like dueling banjos or you know you know within defense you know companies changing up their policies on the fly because somebody else is doing it and you know then it's going to come down to then if companies are now on equal levels how you know how how does one store when companies are both offering the same basic foundational elements and so you know that's something there's gonna be a lot of follow the leader i mean everyone is waiting for this to see what the fangs do all the fangs are going three days a week and it's no secret that many of the fangs the people there are very unhappy with how it's been communicated and and and and how it's been just you know they're going to be doing this there's no discussion there's no if ands or buts you know are people that aren't going to go to you know change their you know for those using linkedin are are they gonna you know put an open to work banner on their on their profile are they gonna give any indication that that they're potentially open to conversations uh how how do we get that information out of them these are the things that we have to consider and here comes the next question and i only know about this because uh somebody else i knew had this happen it's not a big company their their company wanted everybody to come back in everybody went on linkedin and put open to work banners and literally within a week the company changed their mind said you could continue working from home yeah so the question then will become is how many of those open the works are nothing more than smoke screens to put pressure on the companies to change their mind and and here's how you know something's coming there are so many openings for recruiters right now there are more openings for crews than there are recruiters right now and sources and researchers and everything and that's because everybody knows it's coming everybody knows we already have a problem with talent we don't have enough anyway now with companies wanting people to come back to work and people being used to not having to come back to work and there being so many companies willing to let them work remote it's going to get even worse and so ultimately then you know it's something we've talked about in sourcing you know for for a long time but you you know privately for a long long even longer it's not hard to find people ultimately the hard part is it's you know what is the value proposition for somebody working at your company that just seems to be the hardest lesson to get across to to the sourcing so so what pam just posted something steve that is very interesting for people that don't know the secured space she said she has engineers that are willing to give up their clearance to work remotely that's equates to giving up 30 000 more a year at least your clearance gets you that and they're willing to give that up to continue the work remotely that tells us all we need to know about the problems and that tells you and in in the same light and and and that's critical is i've spoken to engineers who are willing to give up their rsus to work remotely it's the same general thing it's uh you know is where you know the the the great thing about being a sourcer or sourcing recruiter you know someone who has those skills is if you're embedded in the community you're hearing these things and one of the one area of ea that i think is going to be it is going to start taking off q4 especially in 2022 and we've been talking about this for the longest longest of times is is everything related to talent and everything that goes into that you know you know you and i we're dave wong's uh you know some of the you know i know i know carrie's a data wonk uh uh we we've been tracking these things but i think that's going to be taking uh a much more prominent role it's in in in in in how we source and resource so we'll see about that one okay dean's on the phone so let's let's go into the chat is there you know anyone there uh are there are there are there any challenging any questions you want to want to ask us about this topic any whatsoever it's by the way it's not just a huge debate uh pam this is there's not a single hr conference that isn't talking about this my apologies for the interruption i have both my grandkids today because my daughter had surgery about a week ago and she's still recovering so i apologize well your your your grandkids don't mind being with you no not at all

they're they were in the pool so i guess they were having fun i'm not because i'm well actually i am now but i wasn't before the call i i i i think i told you this was my my late mom used to say her grandkids were her reward for not killing her own children oh i warned my daughter i weren't both my kids say okay advanced morning you have kids i'm gonna spoil them and then i'm giving them back to you you're dealing with the problem because that's my job i'm oppa got to love me i'm smalling my grandkids and i do all right back to the back of the back yes sir so what do you think you know how how might you know your sourcers modify how they do things to be able to be ready for what i think it was going to be an avalanche of availability so let's answer lisa's question first so if you're recruiting for a company that has some in-office components should you look for a new job the question becomes what is the sum some means a lot of things that they're saying could come in one day a week okay is that really that big a deal if they're saying you have to come in every day well that becomes a big deal how far away is it and it's a decision you have to make yourself it's not a decision we can make for you truth be told if i worked for a company that wanted me to come in one or two days a week i might as long as they were flexible on the time so i didn't have to deal with the traffic i might be willing to do it just to do it i've been but again i've been fully vaccinated and i don't mind wearing a mask i could give a flip less mavic i kind of like it because now people don't know who i am as easily but it depends on you i think everybody has to have their it's got to be your decision i can't tell you what you should do i could tell you but i wouldn't listen if i were you i mean for me one or two days a week probably wouldn't bother me to be quite honest with you it would probably be a good break uh because i'm up here in my office usually by myself unless my son walks in and we talk sourcing or sports or something um or my grandchild knocks at my door which is what she's doing right now um well let me let me let me add a a i don't really an angle to this but you know this is to lisa and uh and pam that's another interesting thing too but lisa i mean i think the one to two days a week you know is something that's it's a foundational element it's what you have to work with it's a building block but when it comes to you know creating the value proposition and and and those who know me this is one thing that i've been talking about it's been talking about for years when you're doing your intake session you know it's not just to reaffirm what's written in the job description because we know all the how good those are but is to establish the value proposition and when you lead off you know you you lead off with this is this is how we work but you know before you say no you know i know you want one day a week and two days a week is going to be a hardship three days gonna be is gonna be absolute torture but before you say no i i just wanna throw some of the specific hardcore challenges that people that that the hiring manager is facing right now and if you can and and then you articulate what that specific deliverable it is what that specific technical problem is what this specific functional problem is and you say do problems like this inspire you did problems like this get your creative and professional and innovative juices going and they go well okay yeah they do and then little by little you reel them in on what is expected what they're gonna do there that they might not be doing anywhere else and then as you know if you if you get people to go well yeah that is i'm not doing that here and i don't think i'll ever be doing that stuff here and those are the things that inspire me those are the things that give me life that give me purpose professionally then you say then you have then you have the conversation weighing days in days out days in days out flexibility but if if if if you're leading specifically with being in the office you've already lost so pam just put up there uh she recruits machinist production people they have to come in the office obviously not all jobs can be done remotely i mean let's get real a person who bags groceries can't do it from the home that would be really tough they got to go in so there's always going to be exceptions to the rules however pam also says that they've been allowing them a very flexible schedule which is outstanding what it boils down to is this this is for all positions a candidate mark and the more flexibility you can have with them the better chance you have of hiring them and most importantly keeping them and so that flexibility that you're showing there pam that's outstanding that's great i mean i mean to be quite honest with you um if i had to go in the office but they were saying hey we need to come in the office one day a week but we'll also let you work 4 10 so you have every friday off that would be really really cool now i already have every friday i'm just saying if i didn't that would be cool anything you can do to make it better for them because this is a candidate market you need to keep in mind three little letters w-i-f-m what's in it for me and the me is the candidate not the company you can't tell well this is what what you can do for the company they don't care what they can do for you they care what you can do for them and as long as you keep that in mind you should be fine as long as you're willing to work with them if this position says they can work from home let them if there's positions they have to come in give them some kind of flexibility about that coming in later coming in early a lot of the biggest complaints about coming into the office especially around big cities is the fact it takes an hour and a half to drive ten miles

yeah you know where you where you'll imagine you know having you know you're working in seattle and living where you'd do dean or or for me where i live in coming to new york city it takes me over an hour to get to seattle during rush hour and the reality is if it's normal driving i can get there for 15 minutes yeah let's get uh we'll get to tiffany and and nancy's uh comments in a question in a second yeah but but but what but the point about you know what all these things for example i think that that's that pam is doing those are things that go into your career page they go into your message and they go into your subject line these are the things you lead with they go into the messages you leave on the phone you know if you're if you're you know calling machines you know people have those skills you probably you know leaving them messages you know you're you know you're you're wherever it is those those are the things that you lead with because those are the things that people pick up on uh you know tiffany doyle's comment i've seen a lot of candidates who want to work a hybrid a couple of days a week in the office home and their flex for summer is completely remote total flexibility what's what i what i predict is going to happen is there are going to some companies you know you know foundational uh a key core company is going to start doing some of that and once one company does it others are going to follow the leaders yeah it always starts somewhere the whole thing with twitter allowing everybody to work from now other companies are starting to look at doing it as much as possible it just takes one and then everybody follows the leader and for nancy uh the whole prediction is the car allowance i think that

it's possible for now that they could put a stay on those allowances because everything is done remotely but let the reality is this at some point in time this is all going to be under control it rather when i don't know i'm not a superstar it could be next year could be five years and then we're going to go back to some semblance of regular stuff and sales people will need their cars in the car allowances again um but for now yeah i could see the taken away but if they're going to take that away what they should it could be removed taken with it say okay since you're doing more stuff on zoom we will pay for your zoom and we will pay for your internet i mean you're still forcing them to do things with their own you know for the company with their own stuff so if that's the case then just go ahead and and take the car allowance away or bring it down some and then give them money for the internet give them money for their zoom account and whatever else they need to to do this with yeah it's true it's nancy gomez it's basically a cut of thousands a year on sales rules with lower bases and again but that's something that then this becomes this is where the pandemic aspects of the pandemic and back to work from home and hybridized stuff become a compensation issue and and maybe there's going to have to be a you know rationalization of of of the entire comp of this of the comp plan it may just be temporary you know yeah you may change the steps you may change the ot but this is something that as recruiters and sources we're out there and people are talking about them it's incumbent upon us to funnel this information right back into hr and and raise a red flag uh on these things going who and ultimately whoever gets it not a hundred percent correct but whoever gets it the most right that's odds is is is gonna come out ahead dean yeah and so well i was looking at what nancy just said so it basically cut it's basically a cut of thousands a year on sales or with lower bases that's the restless commission okay so the commission isn't going to change you're still getting commission on sales you're just doing over zoom now the 600 car allowance and whatever else they're getting that's where someone in hr and finance and these people need to get together and think about it and figure it out what can what can we do to help offset that i mean as an example if they're working more from home they've got an office like i have well in the irs thing you get to claim your office at ten foot by ten blah blah blah blah why not compensate them for that the internet content their phone compensate them there are other i bet you if you added up all the things that they will need to work from home it will probably come up to close to 600 bucks a month because i don't know about everybody my internet is 50 bucks a month now i have a really expensive one my cell phone's another 50 a month that's 100 right there and that's not even counting the area the electricity and all the other stuff if you add it all up i'd be willing to bet you you'd be compensating that much and then once things get back to normal you can revert back to the car allowance and whatever else you're getting but uh you know to brenda's point she says if you're double to the reason you know the re the tax laws under trump i mean i live in new york states and and and you know we know we got slammed with uh with with with uh our but that's not that w thing is not totally true because i got credit for all of my home office stuff it's it depends if you were it depends it depends how you itemize it dean it depends on when you started working from home too if you just started working home because of covet that's where it hits you but i've been working from home since 2009. yeah even same here and then so

it depends and it depends and um fyi and this strictly on the qt uh only because i have a friend of mine that works in dc with one of the kinds of people they're going to be changing that particular tax law well that that then this becomes a political football you and i know we we don't want to get into that here no but but again going back to sourcing you know uh i i'm like you know i talk to people all day long transparency is is is is one of the things that they that actually this is nancy just put a little good long comment i always had a category for which i'm recruiting sourcing the need so it's great you can't get candidates for a bunch of reasons burnout covert arms i'm seeing some ten thousand absolutely but they have to con but they have to commit to stay for two years so they don't want to do that i mean handcuffs are you create a big problem with that one whoever came up with that especially in that field that field right now you see the problem you're fighting right now as it relates to nurses has little to do with jobs little to do with money has more to do with respect and there's more to do with the way they're being treated i have friends of mine who are nurses my next-door neighbor's nurse and she told me the way she is treated now compared those who were treated two years ago two years ago she they were treated well they were treated respectful by the people they saw by people they work with now they're treated as lepers by some of the people that they have to choose they're spit at they're yelled at because they various reasons that's what you're really fighting you're not fighting the money and all that you're fighting the fact that nurses have coveted burnout some people treat it well and make them feel like they're important others treat them like they're the like they're russian communists trying to take over the country and yes that's what you're fighting yeah so like the ten thousand dollar sign-on bonus with the two-year jail sentence

i mean that's that just does that just plays into the fears of people they you know if if they're that good if you're two years given the damn sign-on bonus uh without the uh with without the lock-in you know and you have a claw back period just like any sign-on bonus and leave it as that but don't but locking them in for two years not you know again not knowing uh where they're going to see another massive rise in in in covet variants which we are but ten thousand dollars is not that much over when you look at it over two years that's five thousand a year that's truth be told that's not that much i hate to bust everybody's i've seen ones get fifty thousand dollars and but they had to stay with the company for three years well fifty thousand for three years i think a lot more than ten thousand for two you know what's happening interesting in in some of the uh the programming uh suburbs on reddit is uh developers or engineers as an example they're saying look people they want to so bad start asking for exorbitant salaries and so people are bought they're asking for so much more and and and and these larger companies are paying the price yeah and it and it's this sort of reminds me of the internet boom of the you know the late 00s 98 to 200 where you know a lot of the people on this call probably weren't really i'm sorry i i i know but what was what was happening what was happening there is uh you know is folks i remember this was back in 98 people with uh years experience were getting something on the i think a buck and a quarter in 98 that was phenomenal back then and then and then when ultimately things rationalized out uh following y2k and then especially following 911 those rationalized backed about 65k and folks couldn't handle it you know so that that you know but but but that's where you're sourcing and compensation need to work hand in hand and and and you have to be you're the eyes and the where the eyes and the ears out there in the community and what we hear what we see on these forms that's why i spend so much time on these forms just reading and taking notes and sending links and it's it's critical you know intelligence is critical what brenda brenda your 25k signup bonus what's the uh what is the uh requirement meaning do they have to stay for a year do they not sleep it's just you sign on and you get what is it what does it or yeah or does it depend on the on on the area within i'm sure it has to depend i'm sure well this is it well yeah and that's so there's a lot of questions it's not that's what i would like to know is is it 25k period is it not what are the other what are the other things around it um you know but right now medical my son works for village mds and we talk all the time and medical that's the toughy right now because they're in high demand um they are not being treated very well both by the people they're trying to help and the people they work for um and and you're fighting an uphill battle right now it's just i i don't know what else to say it's almost you're fighting a bit of an uphill battle and a lot of is just a circumstance of what's going on out there in the world and yet you know it still goes down to my my sister runs family social work at a hospital and you know she's been doing it for uh you know many many years

that's by the way brent that's not an onion that's not an unusual claw back that's actually not unreasonable at all but but but it's how we treat people i mean this is uh you know it was a couple of years back you know derek zell and i wrote a wrote wrote a blog post on rd called my name is not candidate and it still goes down to what's going to differentiate the great our art what's going to make our profession better what's going to make your our you know sources better what's going to make recruiters better it's how we treat people it's how transparent we are how honest we are with them and tell them this is this is i'm not lying to you this is everything i know it's it might be having more informational talks before they before they you know you give us your apply for a job you know how many companies say we can't talk to you until you apply for a job and and i know the ofccp challenges with that as well but still you know we have to find a way to be more human in our outreach and our communication in in our marketing and and and uh you know it may entail uh you know as part of your sourcing you're using more video you know get your hiring matches to look in the camera you know they say i don't have i don't have the you know the the budget i don't you do have the budget you're you talk on it every day you know so you can do these things they don't have to be perfect they have to be human yeah and and besides the hiring manager have okay you're looking for a nurse have a nurse do a video on the day in her life how did and ask and let her be honest i love my job i love this i don't like this but i love this they take whatever that's going to be a key and by the way fyi uh was it nancy if you notice what brenda wrote about her their sign-in bonus how it's a uh clawback uh monthly reduction you guys might want to consider one upping your bonus but two doing something like that rather than forcing them to stay for two years because things happen life happens do a clawback that might make more people want to be willing to uh to to take the job and say okay well you know i'll stay and at least i know if i something goes on and i can't stay i'm getting something for it without you know something out of it um you could you could have a get you you you could you could you could guarantee half of it you stay 90 days you get half of it yeah and then and and then you have a clawback period yeah uh let's see what nancy wrote completely different subject though if there's time for you to address it some companies are still doing extensive online assessments psychological profiles that have questionable accuracy and credibility in making candidates do too much and knocking out good ones do you see that going away no i don't see it going away uh fortunate because you're right they're pretty much worthless they they are absolutely worthless worthless um if you you know whatever the assessment is you know you you can do a you know an internet search and just you know see about the good the bad the ugly what's the predictive validity of of these you know it's like you're using the um oh god i'm vapor locking d for football it's the um wonderlic and you know using the wonderlic mesh as as a measure of intelligence there are a number of companies that use the wonderlic in their executive assessment and i often wonder dean why don't they don't have their executives to a bench press or a 40-yard dash also if they're using the wonderland oh i agree and the thing about the wonderlic that's interesting and espn did a big write-up on it for every one person that it gets right it gets four wrong did you know that dan marino had one of the worst wonderlic scorers ever last time i checked he was also one of the best quarterbacks ever and and and and that's and that's and by the way and that's the thing by the way it's it's you know the good thing about uh uh you know for these assessments and again i think this is part of talent intelligence is if you can identify you know the people who've been through your process and uh you know you if you contract them and maybe the best thing that we have for this is is linkedin so i'm i'm not completely knocking linkedin is you know the people who your company turned down because of poor online assessment performance go see how they're doing on linkedin and um you know use that information uh you know create a report and just say look here's what i'm talking with assessments sorry for interrupting students that's okay you're asking them to come up with an assessment to go ahead and grade out the human condition nobody can grade out the human i'll give you an example i took one not too long ago just to see how they changed according to it i'm a very passive person and i need to be overly managed and told what to do anybody who knows me knows that's not even close to right past me passive who in the right mind would call me passion i thought you were bricklayer i thought it said you were you had to be a bricklayer yeah maybe that was it i don't even remember but all i'm saying is it was wrong and if you go online and really pay it and do some research about about the percentages of accuracy of them you're going to find it's way under 40 way under 50 because you're not 40 way under 50 it's they're not accurate now if you want to use them as a piece to a puzzle okay at least that makes better but here's the problem and i'll tell you this right now i did it just to do it if somebody came to offer me a job i don't care if they offered me five hundred thousand dollars a year said but we need you to take this one to look at in this testimonies that i'd say no thank you but that's not going to tell you how well i can or cannot perform my job heck we got people that go to college and get degrees but when they come out in the real world they can't even do the job they've got the degree for yeah i'm going to take that no i'm going to take the that your comment a little bit further dean they're there and because this is right i mean i i did my advanced res studies in in quantitative psych it's um for whatever test is being used if you ever have to go if if you're you'll go for a job and then and and you're given an online assessment you you want to ask what the predictive validity is and see the numbers before you take it i agree and you want to ask you know i i want to go for each item on the test what is the cronbach's alpha it's it's in and and and you know it's it's it's basic test construction but it shows you how you know the items on the test how how consistent the answers are predictive validity you know how well does this predict somebody doing uh you know excelling on the job if you can't come up can't come up with it or you know or or if the average tenure at your company is two years or or 18 18 to 24 months

cut your losses right there so let me give you a military thing in the military we have to take a test every year to validate our ability to do our mos the actual job we're there not the fighting the killing and all that the actual job it used to be a written test they changed it because they found out that 80 percent of the people who took the test and passed couldn't actually do the job so they changed it to a combination of written tester and a hands-on with the hands-on weighing eighty percent of the total score and then they found out that they were getting accurate to people and they knew who really could do the job taking a test doesn't mean you could do a job i could take a test and say yes of course if i take pin one go to pin two it'll do this that's great but when i get out there ones that pin ones and two aren't um designated you can't tell which is one and two well if you're your book jockey which is what we called them you have no way of knowing but if you're a hands-on person you get it you know okay if i follow the strings back it's going to show me where they go and from there i know which ones went that's the difference between hands-on and book knowledge anybody can pass the test that doesn't mean they can do the job i mean that's why you know dean when you and i do you know dueling sources and you know just imagine for those who haven't done something like that you know sourcing live

he can talk uh but we'll do these things live you know in in the old days at t uh there's a woman uh mary Jennifer uh one of the actual heroes of the assessment she was the one who who who on a large-scale basis increased uh you know implemented the use of assessment centers actually you know doing the actual job as a way to uh determine whether somebody was likely to do well in the job those are critical you know online assessments coding tests those aren't real I mean they're all they're essential if you've done

that's actually a very a very good documentary brenda yeah exactly but but but but but but like in engineers if you've if you've done you know these the weather and i'm not going to mention the companies because everyone knows who they are but these are essentially if if if you've recently graduated uh you know with it with a with a computer science degree you'll do well on these things but you know the way but but and in in reality you know real engineering is substantially more complex than just being able to you know feel you know uh code you know a three or three class problem versus a two class problem that's and and and but people are enamored by that they think they're predictive oh wait have you noticed i don't know how many of you have noticed but i've been keeping an eye on this so um and i'm only going to go back 20 years because i really don't like how old i really am all you have to do is all you have to do is ask me and i'll tell you who it is he's five years younger than me i thought it was four but okay four four yeah you know you get to a certain age you forget things hey for those of you that know steve and i we've known each other for a long long time uh we both have a lot in common we were both jones beach is where we live most of our days we spent most of us and all that good stuff but anyway digressing if you've looked at job descriptions over the last 20 years and you go back 20 years have to have a bachelor's degree ten years have to have a bachelorette or an associate and some years of hands-on experience now bachelor's degree or social screening so many hands-on or just experience slowly but surely schooling is becoming less and less important and hands-on experience is more broad now why is that real simple school you learn how to take a test you may learn certain basic stuff great but that doesn't mean you can do the job someone graduating with a master's degree and so in software development that's great they got a master's they have nowhere experience i would rather have that 10 years of experienced person because they know what they're doing in a real world environment not in a class environment where everything's almost always perfect that's and it's the same thing with these stupid tests and i do say stupid because i think they're worthless let me rephrase that i if they are a soul determining factor they are worthless if they are a piece to a puzzle no no no no no i'm okay with it but not if they cost you people because i'm gonna tell you right now i will never work for a company that makes me take one because i don't after 30 years in this industry work for all the different big companies i've worked for you should i shouldn't have to take one at this point in time just a fact you know why some of the things like i don't mind doing like you should do some live sourcing i love that stuff because for me the the the real juices in people is you know when you do something dean you show them stuff and you just hear silence yeah and then and then you hear like you're typing because you know they're just typing the stuff down and that's worth that's worth everything and i'll be honest with you another reason why i hate those static tests is because i don't really care about that i want to know their ability to think on their feet i would rather sit there with them and do sorts of things okay now add this to it how would you go about it i want to know how their thought process i can teach them anything steve can teach him anything steve and i took my son and he's now the head researcher for village md and we taught him but we didn't teach him by saying here's how you do it like a robot we gave him here's a scenario here's how to do this now you figure out how to make it work for your situation and show us we've gave him real world examples and make him come up with real world solutions on the spot the way it happens in the real world not the way it happens in a lab experiment or in college or on these stupid psychological tests i'm not a big proponent of them but mainly that's because they've never been right on me maybe that's why i've taken more than just the one i've taken three or four and they've never been right that's just me okay all children doing this doesn't work

but you know but what's interesting though is you know in in in assessment there needs to be a logical reason for it and and and I think going back to

invariably there's some internal sponsor of every part of the recruiting process somebody has said you know this is a met we need to measure we need to track this is an assessment we need to use this is a question we need to ask you know and so ponder you know nancy you said I think it was nancy you said you that you just went uh to a new

to a new uh a a new a new job if i if i remember seeing that correctly um yeah well yeah i used to do mostly food industry so this is this is a big change part of the challenge and i think and you know think of you know every source of recruiters first hundred days is is going into the environment and asking questions why do we do it this way and and and and and make notes why is the process like this and uh you know why do we only do this well whatever it might be and and and and take your notes and over the course of the you know subsequent week subsequent days try to you know see if you can get a logical answer for yourself as to why these things are taking place conversely if there are if if you notice elements of the process that are kind of quirky or worrisome to you you know come up with alternative ways to to to possibly get to the same area or or to just completely blow the process out of the water and come up with a better process but you know do your due diligence do your note-taking ask your questions i'm just reading nancy's comment i added recruiting for orange though still oh you still do the other stuff

well actually you know what it's not it's it would delay we can do that in terms of finding our ends um hey steve what's your favorite question to be asked

what's going on look at look on facebook click on facebook yeah if you want to get dean's attention every time dean what's your favorite chrome extension for finding emails no that's not my attention if you want to get my ire ire you can get me angry that would be a good one because i'm getting it's the most annoying question in the world and my answer now is whatever one that you works best for you because i'm tired of telling people anyway what are we doing no no but but yeah but two things for you know nancy and and uh you know you know finding finding rns uh it's it's not as difficult as you think it is as far as food manufacturing production supervisors engineers whatnot i know everybody wants them but but here's my super secret super secret way to find uh you know people within the food industry if you go if you were down your production line did you say super secret super c i go super secret or stupid secret whatever it might be i don't know uh we'll get we'll get to kerry is go down your production line and make a list of every equipment all all the equipment and the manufacturers what it might be and it might be if you have an external pm uh firm that comes in make a list of all those firms and there's likely uh you know an account uh manager and a county executive for those they know who's looking by the way and you may have to grease their palms a little bit um that's sort of my stupid secret way is is is always work from the equipment backwards and uh especially if the company's been around for you know for for for quite some time uh let's see nancy there's a tool called heartbeat and it's special it's only medical doctors registered nurses everything and it's incredibly it's really good there's a video i did on it on my youtube page you might want to check into it um and if you want me to introduce you to the guy that to the owner i can do that and he'll be nice to you but it's when it comes i mean when it comes to medical field they have everything doctors registrants travel nurses you name it they got it and it's really good and the other thing to do is and and dean and i have showed shown have done demos on this is if you go to in most every state you you has a place where you can where you can verify licensing licenses yep and and and as often as the case it'll say put in name put in this but is typically the case is you may be able to narrow it down by county or city and literally just put the a singular like a into the last name and you'll get all the a's and then b's get all the beads uh you know we're happy to show you how to do things like that i'm about to put a link into my ssar page where all the medical and healthcare searching information is so i'll add that here too for you seems like the other thing medical has uh you know go insurance agencies you know the state medical board it's remarkable how much public information is on there or you know you can even go something as simple as uh nancy just type you know w where are you looking for some where you're looking for rns if you put it into the chat what uh what area of the country

i'm just reading carrie terry carries i talked to a company a week or so ago they wanted to help eliminate bias well white plains new york i'm i'm i i live in new york on long island i can i can help you with some of the some of the areas there um i'm not sure there's a way to completely remove bias because in order to remove bias you have to know what all the different people's biases are as an example i know somebody that's biased against anybody that hasn't graduated from harvard how are you going to root i mean you it's impossible to cover everything if you want to talk about getting rid of the main biases i.e diversity and all that that maybe you can do but to try to totally remove bias from the equation is next to impossible well the interesting thing is like that carry is like uh you'll have like a 30 second uh uh a 30 question test to determine whether a a man will mansplain or not i mean come on it's just silly stuff uh second column in so i'm sending you a link to the ssar page and it's the second column in about halfway down it's all healthcare and medical links to everything you can imagine including states and keep in mind as steve said earlier if like edna if you go on the end of page they're going to list their preferred providers yeah so they're demonic to you dude yeah dean put the put that link in the chat because i get it oh dude yeah i did that i put both bad and heartbeating in the chat yeah did you did you send it to all uh every one team every one team i guess maybe i screwed that up let me try this again it just still is

that from the very beginning instead of the other okay there we go sorry about that guys actually I'm looking something right up for you nancy right now uh have we just have we decided this is going to be the nancy hour or the nancy fox

oh that reminds me uh nurses doctors lawyers and dean chief nurse ratchet what no I'm about to give her a whole bunch of neat stuff for her, oh I'm a robot did you know google said I'm robot gee what a surprise how many times an hour do we get that oh I don't even want to go there anymore oh it's just horrible I actually got they actually called me one time because I did like 40 searches in like a minute and they were like are you a real person I go I got opinions very well I debate that, yeah a lot of people debate that with me all right so nancy I'm about to put in some searches for you into the string this one is x-raying into facebook looking for nurses um we've done this before I'm pretty sure yeah we have we did it went back when we were doing the um god the dueling sourcing thing we hit their source of things yes yeah that we hit nurses and all sorts of stuff so that's the one for facebook um let me see can I get uh let's see nurse please let me know

no I actually know on the contrary dean Instagram is cool I think insta cool yo psycho and instagram.com I agree i just don't want to do it right now okay I have it up here there's actually uh a lot of them I just don't want to do that right now because that requires a lot of extra work on the back end to get all the incorrect absolutely yeah I'm trying to keep it where they can get them so they need fairly simply um let's see and you might want ner let's see is there any nurses that are actually currently open to work that's what I want nurse yep there's 33 335 000 on Linkedin that are open to working right now I'll send you the string for that one

odds are they're working for somebody not appreciating them very much would be my guess uh that's also technical down there um that's an x-ray into google don't want to mess with that's diversity I'm just looking through all the different searches that I've created over the years, not years in my tool in the tool I created so let's go to uh let's go to Carrie Kerry goes if there's time can you quickly teach how to do reverse image search I right click on my photos but it doesn't work for me what did I miss are you doing is is it a reverse image search for uh google is it Sinai is it the index what is it or several others or any number PMI there's a bunch of them um when you say uh when you say it doesn't work for you what what what do you mean

are you not receiving any any any rep any any uh any any hits when you do a right search on a picture in google you're going to get the picture but then it's going to add some bullcrap next to it like man in suit you need to get rid of that and add in a name a company something relevant to that person um google has removed has made it a little bit harder to do an image search with them because they're being very generic with it and i think that was a byproduct of some of the things that was happening in europe about privacy and so when you do the picture so it's like if you did a picture search on me from linkedin it's gonna say man with a hat or something stupid like that erase that and put in recruiter dean whatever you want and that should start getting you what you really want yeah if you know if you if you would mind carry if you happen to have a you know she's she's got it she said yeah yeah it's doing that okay so we're good yeah yeah but i know but if you could put in the the link or the to the picture the image that you're looking for trying to find put that in there and we'll take a look at it yeah sure but yeah but uh but the interesting nancy i i i was looking at you know a couple of uh you know you know believe it or not attend these spreadsheets with nurses all over them uh i'll uh i'm still going through it i mean literally i have one that is has literally thousands upon thousands upon thousands of attendees i want to go through it and i'll send it to you so um so there wow that's pretty amazing they're all around they really are all around which is her next question

oh it's not really a ha ha ha no the thing is sometimes it's just a question of you know trying to find them it's not really hahaha no I was listening to what she said she did um so the does it say they've not burned out anymore willing to work uh uh playing the odds they probably are burned out

like i guarantee you you know nancy in the new york area my sister's at a hospital in queens that really queens better was the up really was the epicenter of of of the you know the covet uh here in new york area and and and that's certainly extended up in the white plains which is really not that far away um it's not a question the burnout is real it's how you approach folks that makes a difference you know you know you don't do the uh oh i love your profile you're a perfect fit send me your resume here's a sign-on bonus that's not it you know this it's going more towards moving more towards being and that's it we sound repeatable being personal you know little by little reeling people someone in little by little giving them time uh to make decisions asking what other questions you have asking um you know may you know are are there other people that would you like to talk to the head of nursing or somebody just to help get you going um carrie in most cases if you're looking on facebook if they tell you their name and where they work i would get a work email and do it that way um or plan b you can go ahead and get their name and where they live and use some of the free resources to get personal contact information if you try to email them on or contact them via their facebook stuff it's 50 50. um one that they pay attention to that it even gets to them so I would do a little extra if you have any of the tools like swordfish or seek out or hire joining them you just scrape the results get the URLs and stick it in the tools and they'll do the rest for you um or you can go with plan j and just get the list and give it to me or steve and we'll do it for you and make life simple I mean I mean the other day sometimes you know you go to truepeoplesearch.com you go to us phonebook.com and you see what comes up and then if you see some sort of convergence on on on emails or information take those and uh you know and put them into your browser you know for example what I like you know if you get a good I like going to spydialer.com, yeah and if you go to spydialer.com the cool thing is that you can then put in the email and you can listen to the voicemail and it says hi this is dean, oh you know it's

dean don't know why you've had such bad luck with that out with uh two people nancy I've had really good luck with it so I don't know I guess it all depends on what you're looking for

yeah send it to to us Gary i think that that that that that would be a fun thing here you know look we're we're up on the hour and uh you know we you know we thank you for uh you know for for for coming along but please next time bring a friend we're going to do this in two weeks we're going to call it the summer the pina colada edition of the sourcing schoolhouse and I still have to come up yeah I just made that uh

no no no no no no on that note on that note kiki is there something you'd like to see wait a minute hang on a minute kiki hey uh carrie go on the sscr page the first one on the right side there are probably 75 to 100 content finding tools try some of them they may work better for you

but again bring a friend or two or 18 and don't forget go to everyone.us sign up connect with us you know exactly we're here for you well once again thank you everyone for attending our ama like steve said it comes every two weeks so bring a friend also stay tuned on our socials we have our bingo night we have the memorial event for muriel we also have another happy hour coming up at the 31st that's going to be in texas and just other giveaways other future events are going to be posted on our social media so please follow all of our socials kiki one minute real quick uh nancy what spreadsheet are you talking about i think that that was mita the i'll i'll that's the ones that i found out you know the nurses and stuff like that i just found some oh okay i found oh yeah that okay second i found it second comment she was talking about the ssa art page okay gotcha gotcha gotcha all right sorry it's okay but um let me just remind everyone the recordings will be on the everyone website so please give us at least a day so it just downloads correctly we get all the captions and everything is it under how we're helping people or stand up sit down comedy in this case because i think we can cover both categories here honestly we'll decide then but like i said please check out our everyone website it has all of our content all of our webinars events anything you can think of it'll be there so please follow us make an account and until next time all right guys see ya later everyone bye